Guy Lawson, the author of "War Dogs" speaks about "Gërdec" in the Albanian media: Justice must speak

 Guy Lawson while live for Albanian media 

 The well-known American-Canadian journalist Guy Lawson, whose book about the Gërdec explosion was also made into a movie in Hollywood, in an interview for Albanian media with the journalist Arbër Hitaj, talks about the reopening of the investigations and also stops at some facts that the Albanian Special Prosecution known locally as as "SPAK" should consider. He says that in this explosion there are strong doubts that Shkëlzen Berisha was involved together with Fatmir Mediu and other officials. Even the reason that Shkëlzen Berisha brought him to court was precisely that part that, according to Lawson, shows that Shkëlzen Berisha was part of the meeting between Diveroli and Delijorgji, to negotiate the price of the cartridges which was very high, but this is up to SPAK to prove. he says. Regarding the trial, he says that Berisha spent hundreds of thousands of dollars after he appealed and lost at both levels of the judiciary. According to him, the former chief of staff Luan Hoxha, who has won political asylum in the USA, and has never spoken about this tragic event, should be included in this new investigation. According to him, SPAK must courageously resolve this issue and go to the end, for the dignity of Albanian society.

 At the time of the ammunition explosion in the village of Gërdec

Full interview:

Mr. Lawson, thank you for agreeing to give this interview to Report TV and the show "Studio Live",

Thank you.

I want to start the conversation together about your book, which was later made into a movie in Hollywood, which part talks about Albania?

Except for the part about some young man who won a contract with the Pentagon to send ammunition to the Afghan army in those years. The Afghan army was using Soviet-era ammunition and weapons, and as you remember the war in Iraq had caused problems in the supply of weapons. Albania had an extraordinary stock of weapons of this caliber and ammunition, which it had obtained from China or other sources, and Albania was the ideal place to receive 100 million cartridges, buy, and then supply the Afghan army. They did this and the military leaders of the time chose these young men in their 20s to receive the cartridges. But they did not know that they were dealing with strong interest groups as well as a state agency like MEIKO that should not function without NATO supervision. Meanwhile, it was not directly allowed to export ammunition, even after there was an embargo against China, which in the 60s and 70s had supplied Albania. It seems like a very complicated story, where some young people would buy cartridges, but without knowing that interest groups in Albania also had accounts in Cyprus, which then disappeared. They did not know that these munitions, which were not allowed to be exported for idiotic reasons, would be dismantled in a village called Gërdec. But together with them, large-caliber ammunition was dismantled, which then most likely led to the explosion of Gërdec. Where 26 people lost their lives and SPAK has resumed investigations. The answer to your question is that the main part of the book is this, but also the involvement of many Albanian politicians and criminal exponents involved in the Gërdec explosion. I was in Albania for several months when there was a war in Kosovo, I was in Kukës, in Durrës, in Tirana, and I created sympathy and interest for the Albanian people who were very good to me, and I decided to write the book. It doesn't happen often that Albania is at the center of attention of the international media, but I feel pleasure to understand and report on the Albanian aspect of this matter. But this does not only include Albanian officials being investigated by SPAK, but also appalling behavior by the American Embassy there, by the Department of Justice, the Pentagon, and the State Department. So in addition to Albania and its officials, American agencies are also very important.

 Cove of "War Dogs"

How did you find out that the issue of ammunition turned into a problem in Albania?

Initially, as an investigative journalist, my first impulse came from writing on the main page of the NYTimes newspaper, it's strange but a lot of big news comes from simple ideas, or from not being reported clearly by the big media. I remember on the front page of the NYTimes, there were two young men, Efraim Diveroli and David Packauz, who had lied to the US government about ammunition and then risked relations with US allies in this war. The opposite was true the ammunition worked very well, and I talked to many people in Afghanistan and they told me that the ammo worked the best. Because the munitions were Chinese and they were banned in 2008, in the middle of the war, where it was a war that the US was losing and they actually lost it as time showed. I found it in the NYTimes, and I put the title, "Guys and Guns," as they called themselves when communicating with each other. After communicating with them for a long time I clearly understood that the munitions not only worked best, but the Pentagon and the State Department lied in their response, making it look like these are the bad guys, while the Gërdec explosion did not appear at all. I was curious there, who were the real beneficiaries in Gërdec, who was hiding behind that serious event, who decided to make children and women work in those scandalous conditions. The Albanian people deserve the truth.

Exactly for the truth I want to ask you, for concrete names, official or not, what have you discovered in your investigation?

I have reported before that when Efraim Diveroli came to Albania to negotiate the new price of ammunition that was high, he met with the former broker he had hired, Kosta Trebicka, who died in very mysterious and suspicious circumstances. So he was taken to a meeting by Kosta Trebicka where he met with businessman Delijorgji and Shkëlzen Berisha, the son of former prime minister Sali Berisha, which Diveroli himself later denied, I don't know why he denied it, because he is also an unusual person. This was a scenario in which Fatmir Mediu, the former Minister of Defense, was also involved, and even Sali Berisha was involved, according to many people I interviewed, which I don't know if is 100% true or not, but I included them in my book. This is the reason for which then Shkëlzen Berisha took me to court and the charges were invalidated at all levels of the judiciary in the USA, there being no chance for it to happen otherwise. This motivated me to do the investigation and the book because the families of the victims deserve the truth, and the Albanians who are part of NATO and want to be in the EU deserve it. This must be clarified and the truth must be revealed to the end, I do not want to condemn anyone, but I want the truth and the government of Edi Rama to keep its word to go to the end of this matter, also the American embassy to tell clearly why Sali Berisha and his son were declared non grata. These are questions that I often raise in order to give Albania dignity so that the society there can be emancipated and be part of the European Union.

A concrete question, what have you discovered about the son of former Prime Minister Sali Berisha, Shkëlzen Berisha?

That Shkëlzen Berisha was part of the meeting between Diveroli and Delijorgji to negotiate the price of the ammunition that the "AEY" company was buying for the Pentagon. It was a fact that he denied, but I believe there are facts about it, for example, the former Chief of Army Luan Hoxha at that time told the American Embassy that his life was in danger and now he is in the Bronx. He knows a lot about this event. But also facts about Fatmir Mediu, who has been accused of corruption, that I saw in a photo with the head of the American Congress, and this is a pity since the American government has not helped Albania to do more to clarify this file. So it is a complicated issue that requires prudence and courage from SPAK investigators to go to the end.

What do you believe is the big truth that the Albanian public does not know about this explosion?

What was really going on with all that ammunition? If you think about it logically, it was a great asset, which the then government of Sali Berisha told you to discard. You can understand how you can throw millions of dollars down, making them endanger innocent citizens in Gërdec. I ask the courts in Albania and the government to give clear answers to my book, too many questions that are still unanswered.

If SPAK will invite you to provide information about the investigation, would you be willing to provide documents to reveal the truth?

Of course yes. But obviously, the people who should speak are Luan Hoxha, to continue with Fatmir Mediu or his assistants. You remember what happened to Kosta Trebicka at that time, that businessman who had a wife and children, and I don't know what happened to him. There have been many doubts about that death. However, what I have is part of the book, but if they asked me for the documents, I would give them, without hesitation.

I want to stop for a bit on your trial with the Berisha family, don't be mistaken about Shkëlzen Berisha?

This is a question for him. But what I declare in court is related to the destruction of his reputation. But in the US regarding the free press, there is a decision from the Supreme Court, there is a case of NYTimes v. Sullivan, which says that when a person is a public figure and a journalist like me should know the truth about that figure or not go ahead. They referred you to this very case. But this was only one case. The young Berisha at that time I declare was a public figure and my publisher did a survey and everyone knew the Berisha family which is not a surprise. And the standards protecting investigative journalists when investigating high officials or public figures should be exceeded, in his case, I really don't know what standards he wanted to impose. But despite the process and technicalities, all levels of the judiciary brought him down and made it clear that he had no chance of winning. He appeals to other levels in the Supreme Court which is very expensive, I am happy that my publisher defended me, and I also had good lawyers and I testified at that time. They forget that real children lost their lives there, remember one of the mothers, Zamira Durda. That it is not untrue or a statistic, but that she is raising her voice for her child. 26 people died that day, women and children, and justice must be done for them. Not for me.

I was a young journalist, I went to that area in the afternoon and I can tell you that it was a catastrophic scene.

I have a question out of curiosity, what was the price that Shkëlzen Berisha paid in court?

In the US?

What about the case against you?

There were no prices to be paid but there were for lawyers, which could have been hundreds of thousands of dollars, I know that the publisher protected me and we did not get a refund. But we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and a lot of energy to withstand great pressure. In the US when someone gets lost you have to pay the damage to the other person, but in this case, it wasn't.

What about the accusations that came to you from Mr. Berisha that Mr. Erjon Veliaj is giving you information?

When I wrote the book, I met with Mr. Veliaj, but it is not at all true that he gave me the information about the book, I got the information from different sources, official interviews, and foreign and local media. As for the attacks on my person by Berisha, I don't even want to deal with them at all. What is important remains the fact that the American justice gave its verdict, but now the justice in Albania must also give it. As you have seen, the explosion of Gërdec was a catastrophic explosion that must be clarified to the end.

You also mentioned the role of the American Embassy in that period of time in Albania, what are you talking about more specifically?

It was a bad role and let me say embarrassing because the US embassy knew very well what was going on there, everybody in the defense industry knew what was going on. I spoke with the former military attaché there, I spoke with other officials who did not want to declare their identity, but also with the UN officials who were involved. And when it happened, the problem was ignored as it would have complications for Albania's membership in NATO, which was a strategic objective for Albania but also to avoid damaging diplomatic relations, which for me was something cynical and short-sighted.

A question about the death of Mr. Kosta Trebicka, do you believe it was an accident or suspicious?

There are many circumstances that are very strange. It was an accident in the middle of nowhere, as the body was found far away from the car when it was found dead. Many had warned him, and I think there are many doubts. But I don't have answers, they should be given by justice like Berisha, Mediu, or others, without justice there will be no beautiful future for your country, which aims and I hope to become part of the European Union with full rights.

I have one last question for you, do you have any plans to do another book since this one was so successful that it was made into a movie?

I just finished a book about corruption in a college basketball called "Hot Dog Money" and it's directed by George Clooney, I believe it will be adapted on a movie.

Mr. Lawson, thank you for this interview on Report TV.